That is precisely my point, both sources contradict each other. The fact of the matter is that the queen-hybrid seen in AvP:R was created through a normal Facehugger, which begs to question how is that possible. Obviousely, it's in the film so it's not a matter of if it exist or not, but it is inconsistant with other methods that had previousely been established,which should be noted on the page.
As far as the Queen not looking the same in Alien3, well logically speaking if it was spawned from a human then it should look the same as the Queen seen in Aliens which was very likely spawned from a human.
- There are a lot of inconsistencies in the franchise, especially the expanded universe. But if we take just the films by themselves, every Queen we've seen (except the Predalien) looks the same, and every one of those has come from a human (Aliens, Alien Resurrection and Alien vs. Predator). No real inconsistency there. The Royal Facehugger is only in the Assembly Cut of Alien3, so if we take the theatrical cut as canon, there's no inconsistency with which Facehugger can lay a Queen, either.--Leigh Burne (Talk) (Contribs) 12:47, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
- We never saw the Queen birthed from a human in Alien vs Predator, we do know however, that it is thousands if not millions of years old, likely brought onto the planet from another location. Point being is there is a problem with the origins and appearance of the Queen and it should be added for educational purpose if nothing else.
- We don't know that at all. The Queen in Alien vs. Predator is ancient, yes, but so is the temple she is held in. The film explicitly states the temple used to be a human city, and that those humans were used to breed the Aliens the Predators would fight. It's never suggested the Queen couldn't have come from one of those people. Maybe she was brought to Earth from elsewhere, but I don't remember the film ever suggesting that. It left it ambiguous.
- Exactly, the film states the temple was used for rites of passage yes, but it never touched on the subject of how the Queen was created, it's not even suggested. Is it possible that the Queen was born from a human? Possibly, but there's no evidence to support that. What we do know from the expanded universe is that Predators would capture Queens from hives and transport them to other locations and use them for rites of passage at their temples in other locations and planets. Following this, it's logical to assume, and yes it is an assumption, that the same thing was done to the Queen on the temple in Alien vs Predator.
- Yeah, I had previousely added material to it, but it was removed. As long as everyone is okay with it then I'll expand on it again.
- "Is it possible that the Queen was born from a human? Possibly, but there's no evidence to support that."
- Yes there is. It looks like the Queens in Aliens and Alien Resurrection, which definitely came from people. The one in Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem came from a Predator and looks different. So the one in Alien vs. Predator was presumably human-spawned too.
- As for the expanded universe, I always take that with a pinch of salt because it's so loaded with contradictions. Not to mention Fox are apparently jettisoning all of the old EU material in favour of starting over with the films as a base. The most recent novels and the Fire and Stone comics form part of that new EU. Everything else is apparently being retconned or just ignored.--Leigh Burne (Talk) (Contribs) 13:38, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
- That's just an assumption though, we never saw it occur and goes to show that Queens may still always appear as a Queen, other the the Hybrid which is apart of the contridaction of the expanded universe. That would mean that every single Queen (and empress) ever seen would all have to be human spawned even the Matriach. Which is all highly unlikely.
- And really? I didn't hear about that, that's pretty lame.
- It is an assumption, yes, but based on the evidence of the films, it is an entirely reasonable one. The films prove Queens don't always look the same, because of Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem. The EU may contradict that, but the EU on here has always been secondary to the films. The films are considered top of the pile when it comes to what is canon. The reason for that is trying to reconcile everything would be impossible because there are just too many things in the EU that don't work given what we see in the films. That doesn't mean everything from the EU is ignored, of course. But it's a very tricky situation.
- Supposedly that's what is happening. There hasn't been any official announcement or anything, but allegedly the studio wants to start afresh and create an EU that fits around the films. So far they've had the books Out of the Shadows, Seas of Sorrows and soon River of Pain, the game Alien: Isolation, and the new comics that are running currently, and soon they are going to be doing more novels set post-Resurrection.--Leigh Burne (Talk) (Contribs) 13:53, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
- Even in the films though there are inconsistancy. Such as with the Directors Cut of Alien 3 (naturally). But even Alien3 itself has many unanwered questions as to how a Facehugger was even boarded on the Sulaco among others. A:CM attempted to answer that, but created more plot holes than anything else. All we can really do is give the information that we have and a lot of it is inconsistent. Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem is also a spinoff cross over film as is AvP. So it is difficult like you mentioned. But like you said, it is still debated and just needed to be expanded on so it's all good and such.
- I really hope they don't screw up any of the already established material though. It's a big pet peeve of mine when people backtrack stories like that.
- Again though, the Assembly Cut of Alien3 isn't the 'official' version of the movie, and contradicts the theatrical version (which is). That's why story elements related to it are mentioned under separate subsections on the relevant pages on Xenopedia. The only extended cut from the Alien series that can be regarded as official is the Special Edition of Aliens, because James Cameron has confirmed it is the version he wanted to release originally. Nothing in it contradicts the theatrical version, the preceding film or the sequels, it merely expands upon the existing story unobtrusively. Plus elements from it (the sentry guns) were used in Aliens: Colonial Marines. The other alternate film versions all have scenes that don't really fit the overall continuity (especially Alien and Alien3).
- Yes but that was what David Fincher had intended for the film, it was only the producers that fought with him and made him redo virtually everything. He talks about it in his interviews about how they fought with him on all of his decisions and fired him three times. He even states that he hates the theatrical version as it's not what he had intended it to be or what he wanted.
- It's so strange, because the theatrical version itself has so many plotholes that are filled in with the Assembly version, though there are still some problems with it. It's kind of funny in a strange way.
- It'll definitely be difficult for them, I have a lot of the older 90's comics and stuff. I'm personally very concerned with the Prometheus sequel.
- "Yes but that was what David Fincher had intended for the film, it was only the producers that fought with him and made him redo virtually everything."
- The only person who knows what Fincher truly intended for the film is Fincher himself, I'm sure he made changes during production as well. For example, I've heard that it was his idea to have the Alien simply kill all of its victims instead of cocooning some of them alive. The truth is we'll never know what was changed by the studio and what was changed simply because Fincher wanted to change it. If he had personally created the alternate cut in 2003 that would have lent it some additional credence, but he declined to be involved and we have to go with what we have. As it stands the Assembly Cut is nothing more than an unofficial alternate version, a "what-if?". (I actually much prefer it to the theatrical cut, but my own personal opinion is irrelevant, the theatrical release has to be considered official.)--Leigh Burne (Talk) (Contribs) 15:14, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
Sevastopol Drone Edit
Hey Leigh, I am wondering if you can let me know what site the devs had said that about the drone, it could be used as a source, since a lot of folk are still not sure on what came from Foster. I personally would like to read it as well as I find the Sevastopol Drone quite interesting. The Cruentus (talk) (Contribs) 13:13, December 8, 2014 (UTC)
- Sure, I'll have a look for it. I'm sure I remember somewhere quoting them saying the Alien that follows you at the start of the game is the "main" creature, the one that started it all. I'll have to have a hunt around for it.-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 14:56, December 8, 2014 (UTC)
Human character infobox issuesEdit
I'm working on the Lisbeth Hutchins page, and I'm having issues adding her voice actor in the info box. The text just goes to the intro of the page. Any suggestions/help would be appreciated. Spikeygod69 (talk) (Contribs) 00:04, December 16, 2014 (UTC)
Samwell Stone read throughEdit
- Sure, I'll have a look today.-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 08:54, December 22, 2014 (UTC)
- I also got the Lisbeth Hutchins article fleshed out. If you guys get a chance to go through it. Let me know if there are improvments to made.Spikeygod69 (talk) (Contribs) 19:30, December 22, 2014 (UTC)
Sgt. Apone avatarEdit
Just wanted to say that is "absolutely badass!" Haha, Apone's always been one of my all time favorite characters from the entire AvP Universe, but not everyone speaks of him as often as they should.
Props for the avatar!
- Haha Apone rules.
- "What do you want me to do, fetch your slippers for you?"-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 22:18, January 1, 2015 (UTC)
"Gee, would you sir? I'd like that."
- :D-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 12:03, January 5, 2015 (UTC)
Sorry. I never meant to sound uncivil.
I am getting rid of these goofs for a reason though. The ones that I'm getting rid of can be easily justified whilst the ones I'm not mean there really is no logical explanation.
Here, let me give justifications.
- Like I said, Shaw is having an Alien caesarian in the year 2089. That's 74 years into the future and even in present day, medication is booming and becoming more and more advanced each year. Not only have we no idea how advanced medication is in Prometheus, but we also see Shaw take at least 3 shots of painkillers or something along those lines.
- The vodka bottle standing up really is not a goof at all. Objects can land upright when falling.
- This one annoyed me. Sorry for losing my temper. The Deacon was obviously just an embryo gestating inside the Engineer and that it bursted for the very reason of being too big. It's not like it was transferred from the Trilobite into the Enginner AS IT IS NOW. It's like saying a fully grown man would have been too large to fit inside a woman's belly.
- Even Toa is removing speculations on the planet being Earth. I find it hard to critisize something that is only a mere assumption.
I'm going to remove these goofs one last time. It's up to you weather they should stay or not but please put my reasons into consideration.
- Yeah, I looked it up and I've found a few sources (, ) where Ridley Scott says that's it's not necessarily Earth. The goof actually would support that's it's some other planet.--Toa Quarax(Talk) 23:25, January 9, 2015 (UTC)
- "Like I said, Shaw is having an Alien caesarian in the year 2089. That's 74 years into the future and even in present day, medication is booming and becoming more and more advanced each year. Not only have we no idea how advanced medication is in Prometheus, but we also see Shaw take at least 3 shots of painkillers or something along those lines."
- I'm sorry but I can't really agree. Saying "it's the future" just doesn't cut it. Shaw's abdomen is completely cut open, down to her womb, and all we see the med pod do to fix it is give her a couple of shots, staple her skin closed and spray on some disinfectant. Nothing is done to address the internal damage. Painkillers can't close internal incisions. You can't swallow a pill that will magically sew your insides back together. And the kind of physical activity she exerts afterwards would be physically impossible with any amount of painkillers in your system. At the very least, the staples would tear open when you start running and jumping around. Maybe if the film tried to show us some kinda of super medicine-wizardry it would fly, but it doesn't even attempt to make a realistic argument for what happens.
- "The vodka bottle standing up really is not a goof at all. Objects can land upright when falling."
- Again, it absolutely is a goof. Put a bottle of vodka in your car, crash it down a hill, and see if it's still upright at the end. The fact the bottle is intact at all is ridiculous, given that the rest of the pod is trashed. It's utterly unrealistic. It hasn't even fallen off the bar it's sitting on!
- "This one annoyed me. Sorry for losing my temper. The Deacon was obviously just an embryo gestating inside the Engineer and that it bursted for the very reason of being too big. It's not like it was transferred from the Trilobite into the Enginner AS IT IS NOW. It's like saying a fully grown man would have been too large to fit inside a woman's belly."
- I rewatched this scene specifically to see if you had a point, and I'm sorry, but the creature that emerges is noticeably larger than the Engineer it came from. It's not a case of it bursting out because it had filled the space — it's larger than the space it was supposedly contained inside just a couple of seconds earlier. When you see it lying next to the dead Engineer it's obviously larger than the Engineer's chest cavity, and could not conceivably have fit inside. Of course it wasn't always that big, my point is the film shows us it's grown beyond the Engineer's capacity to contain it before it hatches.
- As for the last goof, I happen to agree, it wasn't me who re-added it to the page...-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 18:45, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
- Okay. My apologies. I was having a rather heated discussion over Prometheus and wanted to clear it's name through other methods. Of course YOUR justifications make a lot of sense. Though I'm still having doubts over the Deacon and the Vodka bottle.
- Did we ever see what position the Deacon was in? It could have been in a contorted position barely managing to fit. Maybe the camera angle was just giving off the impression that it was big. Remember, Engineers are at least 8+ feet taller than humans. That's quite a lot of space.
- Of course, that isn't enough to remove the goof but whatever.
- Well it's not really a case of clearing the film's name... Both good and bad films have goofs. Aliens has goofs. Aliens is literally my favourite film of all time, yet I've spent a lot longer compiling the goofs page for that on here than I have Prometheus. Just because Prometheus has mistakes, that doesn't make it an awful film. Similarly we can't ignore or unreasonably justify mistakes just because we love the movie.
- In the scene after it's born, the Deacon is lying directly alongside the Engineer, and there's no way it could have fit in the Engineer's chest cavity, regardless of the position it was twisted into. The volume of it's head and torso were just too great. The same thing happens in the theatrical cut of Alien3, where the Chestburster that comes from the dog is virtually as big as the dog was to start with.
- As for the vodka, I'll be honest I don't really understand why you can't accept that it's unrealistic for a bottle to land perfectly upright on top of a raised bar during a spaceship crash...-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 11:38, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
- I never said it wasn't unrealistic. I said it was IMPROBABLE. But hey, what goes, goes.
- I myself, as with a lot of others to prefer to consider the extended version of Alien3 canon. So in my opinion the runner was never birthed from a dog and instead, an Ox.
- It's far more than improbable. It's like being in a plane crash and then finding a pristine bottle of vodka sat perfectly upright on top of a galley trolley when the rest of the cabin has been totally trashed, luggage and food trays lying everywhere. It just would not happen. Going back to my earlier analogy of a car crash, as someone who's been in a car crash, I can assure there's no way a bottle could've been standing upright after the violence of the crash, and that wasn't even a big accident.
- And preferring the Assembly Cut of Alien3 doesn't really change the fact the Deacon in Prometheus is visibly too large to have fit inside its host.-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 20:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
- As I've had no response from you on this for three days, I'm going to add the goofs back into the article. I've explained my reasons why I believe them to be valid and haven't really had a counter-argument, so for now I'll add them back.-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 09:22, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
This is the original Fire and Stone promo art (before they updated it by opening the Alien egg Angela is looking at, changing Ahab's bio-mask and a few other things) and I personally feel it would look great on the main page somewhere, since it has everything from the AvP Universe; Aliens, an Engineer, a Predator, humans and even a Synthetic, amongst other things such as the Engineer vessel and a very Giger-esque feel. I went on to add the AvP logo on the bottom left.
- That is pretty cool. I was thinking we need a new main logo for the site, the current one's never been that great. Do you have it without the added logo? I might toy around with adding "Xenopedia" across it, similar to the current logo.-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 12:45, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
That sounds pretty amazing, I actually thought the same thing.
Here you go, highest quality as well:
- Great, thanks a bunch. I'll start playing around with it when I get a chance.-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 15:47, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
AVP: The Creature Effects of ADIEdit
I stumbled across this by accident when searching for the Prop Store's (apparently now deleted) page on the piton gun. I thought you might find it useful since you were adding some BTS info to AVP -related pages.--Toa Quarax(Talk) 00:41, January 19, 2015 (UTC)
- Ah cool, thanks for sharing. I'll have a look through it some time.-- LEIGH BURNE(Talk) 08:59, January 19, 2015 (UTC)