Talk: Dorsal spines

Necessary?

Do we really need this page? All it really says is they have dorsal tubes but we don't know why. Not sure this page is especially necessary.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 09:52, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

It's Xenomorph anatomy, specifically anatomy unique to the Xeno. I think it deserves a page or that it's contents be put in an appropriate place so it doesn't feel like my time was wasted.Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 00:15, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

I get that, and they deserve a mention. I'm just not sure they deserve an entire page to state something that could be accurately summed up in a couple of sentences on other articles.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 14:44, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, though personally I thought the headbite was not really necessary but considering its their trademark attack, I thought what the heck.

I am not sure if it was a novel or a script but I remember reading somewhere that they produce the resin through their backs, possibly the dorsal tubes but then other novels such as River of Pain contradict that by saying that it comes from their mouths. -- The Cruentus^(Talk) 10:09, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

That was the original, unmade AVP script, The Hunt: Alien vs. Predator. Not sure if it ever got into any of the books or comics, but certainly it's not in any of the ones I've read. As you rightly say, the newer novels say they regurgitate the Hive-building material from their mouths.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 11:50, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

Also, no one seems to be making a giant fuss about the Dreadlocks page. That piece of anatomy is similar rarely/never made mention of in regards to their purpose or function, but get a whole page to themselves.Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 06:58, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

The Deadlocks page is pretty weak, but with those there can at least be discussion of how they vary in colour, length and decoration from creature to creature and how this may be cultural as well as natural. Dorsal tubes are essentially the same for every Xenomorph.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 09:37, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

No they aren't. And in that case, why not make a page about human hair since it too varies in length, color and decoration from person to person due to cultural or natural reasons. Xenomorph tubes vary in appearance and have the same function a shark's fin does, implicitly. Otherwise, the obvious reference to sharks in the comics would not be made. And thats just in general, Carrier spines have a special function and Queens/Praetorian spines look different. Considering how royal facehuggers in the EU as well as Breeding huggers have them, one could argue that spines are an indicator of "royal" status among Aliens.Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 07:19, May 10, 2016 (UTC)

They don't "have the same function a shark's fin does". We have no idea what they're for because it's never been explained or explored. That's just speculative.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 10:31, May 10, 2016 (UTC)

If we delete this page, I vote we delete the Dreadlocks page as well.Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 20:30, June 6, 2016 (UTC)

That comes across as a bit personal, but we could vote. Like Leigh said though, dreadlocks may have a purpose while the dorsals do not. Afterall if Predalien take those then they must have some use. -- The Cruentus^(Talk) 10:16, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

It is. I don't want my hard work just tossed by the wayside. And what purpose would that be? The Predalien also takes its hosts skin color -- what purpose could that be for hmm?Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 18:02, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

Page deletions are decided on a page-by-page basis; just because one goes that doesn't mean another is automatically deleted as well. Officially, we have absolutely no idea what dorsal tubes are for, they are just there. Dreadlocks at least appear to vary in terms of colour and decoration from Predator to Predator, implying they either change with age of hold some cultural significance. But that's not a discussion for here.

As it is, this page is rife with assumed information. The "Hunting Tool" section in particular is essentially all made up of assumptions, and even concludes by saying that information might be completely inaccurate because it's based on no real evidence. I would like to go through the article properly before it goes to see if anything of use can be moved elsewhere, but a lot of this is just speculative and doesn't belong.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 10:32, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

Then first chance I get, I might vote for the Dreadlocks page to be taken down. This page has far more substance than those pages and this wiki has PLENTY of assumptions scattered about it. We warn that they are not to be taken as fact, and the fact that they are put under "possible" explanations again make it clear that this stuff isn't set in stone. And so what, the Dorsal tubes have PLENTY of variation from caste to caste. Aliens are practically identical, so it's just ridiculous to compare them on an individual level. Apples to oranges, that is.

Honestly, the Dreadlocks page doesn't really even deserve it's own page. It could easily be absorbed into the main Yautja page and this page could easily be absorbed into the main Xenomorph page in the anatomy sections. Anyway, before we start deleting things, I'm going to do a bit more research.18:02, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

There's really no substance to this page beyond vague assumptions that the page itself admits are potentially completely inaccurate. That's why I've nominated it for deletion. Stuff like "maybe they use them to hunt but maybe they don't" hardly constitutes valuable information.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 18:55, June 8, 2016 (UTC)

Neither does the entirety of the Dreadlocks page, and yet...Anyway, those "vague assumptions" have solid bases and Xenomorphs do act similarly to some earth animals. This is definitely not the first time Xenos and real-life animals have been compared, not on this Wiki and not in the universe itself.Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 21:55, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

Comparisons to real creatures are entirely valid so long as there is some kind of intuitive evidence to back it up. Saying a Queen is like a termite queen is valid, because we have seen on several occasions that both creatures fulfil very similar roles in the nest. Suggesting Xenomorphs tubes are like sharks because someone's seen a single still picture of a Xenomorph with it's dorsal tubes poking out of the ground is just speculation. Not to mention, like I said, the page basically says this might be complete rubbish in the next sentence. That's not worthwhile info to me, it's just someone making unfounded, made-up suggestions.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 09:59, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

(Late reply) just because you did "hard work" doesn't make the page immune to deletion, this is not your page, there is nothing on wiki that belongs to anyone except say the user page and personal blogs and the latter can be deleted should it be in the best interest of the wiki. Having your work undone or edited should never be taken personally as per the policy, it is the nature of a wiki for things to get edited and deleted mercilessly, within reason of course. This discussion seems to be dragging on as well. If there is no good reason for the page to stay then it should be deleted. -- The Cruentus^(Talk) 11:30, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

I vote the page stays or that it's contents be moved into the main Xenomorph. Oh, and for the record Leigh Burne, there's more than "a single instance" of the Xenomorph tubes being used in a sharklike manner. And there's a difference between a comparison and a "suggestion", obviously.

My position on the page remains to same. It stays. OR if it gets deleted, the equally useless Dreadlocks page goes with it.Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 11:40, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

Don't make demands Werebereus, there is no "if this goes then that must go" That is quite frankly, immature. Pages are deleted if it is necessary and not on the whims of one person, especially when it is clearly a personal reason that is motivating them. If this pages gets deleted, we will consider the subject of the dorsal tubes on the Xenomorph page if there is relevant information to support it.

-- The Cruentus^(Talk) 11:54, June 14, 2016 (UTC)

I intend to go through this article in the very near future and move anything of value elsewhere, but in my eyes a lot of this is inappropriate speculation. Once I've done that, I vote to delete it. I would've done the info harvest already but I've been having internet issues this week.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 08:34, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Deletion

Right, I've been though the page and cut everything that was speculative.

There's no evidence to suggest the tubes serve any purpose in swimming (Resurrection Aliens swim just fine without using them) or hunting (do Xenomorphs even hunt for food at all? They've never been shown to do it. Nor do they seemingly care about separating the weak from the strong. They just attack indiscriminately. At any rate, a BBC wildlife documentary is hardly any kind of support for a totally fictional alien creature.) And while the temperature control idea is a really cool one, there's no evidence to support it. Sure, some animals have protrusions that play a role in temperature control, but likewise plenty have protrusions that don't, such as camel humps.

I also cut the stuff that relied overly on gaming mechanics from Extinction (many of which are contradicted by the films anyway). The remaining info on tube variations could easily be discussed on the pages for those specific Xenomorph variants, so with that in mind I don't really see what other use this page could serve.

Oh, and in the interest of being fair/avoiding aggro, I'm heading over to the Dreadlocks page now to assess that.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 11:00, February 21, 2017 (UTC)

The recent video I posted in my blog on here by Gillis and Woodruff explain that the tubes were added simply to make it look less than a man in a suit or less humanoid. -- The Cruentus^(Talk) 15:54, February 21, 2017 (UTC)

Why don't you cut everything else on this site that's speculative why you're at it? Would definitely shear down the word count. Xenomorphs do hunt. Tracking another creature with the intention of killing them is hunting, even if they kill just to kill. It's call surplus killing-- predators do it all the time, and the Xenomorph definitely does. There was no claim about them seperating the strong from the weak, although when predators scatter prey this is generally the reason. I acknowledged that aliens kill indiscriminately, whether prey is dangerous or not. And by the way, yes Camel dumps DO radiate heat, their primary purpose is to store and consume fat when the Camel is forced to go for long periods of time without food.

Also those "gaming mechanics" are more unique features of the Predaliens caste than a mechanic. Aliens have been known to grow into stronger forms. Drones turn into warriors for instances. Same deal here: stronger alien, pretty much the same caste.Werebereus - ಠ_ಠ 04:19, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

I routinely cut down on speculation on here. But there's a big difference between an informed suggestion based on supporting evidence and just supposing ideas with no evidence to back them up. A single image of a Xenomorph poking its tubes out of the water doesn't prove they might be like sharks; maybe its just swimming in shallow water, or maybe the artist simply drew it like that because it looked cool with no thought as to a legitimate purpose. It's just not sufficient to say. As I already said, there's no evidence I've ever seen to suggest dorsal tubes are integral in swimming (Resurrection shows they don't), somehow used for hunting ("Similar to wolves, Xenomorphs may use their dorsal tubes to panic and scatter prey, so that the slower, weaker individual will be revealed." — your literal words. They've never been seen doing that. That's purely speculative.) or heat dissipation.

As for the game issue, your talking about Predaliens only growing spines after they've evolved — as they do in Extinction — is contradicted by numerous other sources that show Predlaiens having tubes from birth. A lot of the mechanics that game uses are contradicted by the films and other games.-- LEIGH BURNE^(Talk) 09:54, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Dorsal spines discussion

Did you guys seriously lock the page after I added verified information and then remove the verified information because I DARED to add a smidge of speculation? Please tell me you're joking, so I can stop wasting my time and energy on this joke of a wiki.Jaxterhammer ^{(talk) (Contribs)} 02:32, February 6, 2020 (UTC)

Did you even read the policy regarding speculation? So you complain about us removing your edits even you admit to adding speculation? We removed game mechanics and speculation, it does not matter the game mechanics are verified, its not something people are supposed to take as gospel i.e Predaliens do not actually molt after each kill. Runners don't give you cysts etc. Runners don't have dorsal spines because they were designed to be more streamlined, it is nothing to do with power. Now if you had started a discussion earlier, Leigh could have explained why he reverted your edits.  The page was locked because you were edit warring instead of coming here and discussing it. ---- The Cruentus^(Talk) 11:10, February 6, 2020 (UTC)